Jordan “Joe” Young is from Charlotte and is beginning her junior year at North Carolina A&T State University where she is majoring in political science. Malik Zeigler is also a Charlotte native. He has a bachelor’s degree from NC State where he majored in political science. In May, he completed his master’s degree in public administration at Appalachian State. While the interview with them was fascinating, their answers have been edited for brevity.
What got you interested in municipal government?
Left to right: Joe Young, Mayor Walker Reid, Malik Zeigler
Young: I always wanted to work in government, but A&T focuses more on federal and state. And federal government is glamorized in the media. But now that I have been in it and have seen what local government is all about, I’m really interested in it.
Zeigler: Early on, I didn’t have any interest in local government. I kept thinking I wanted to work in D.C. and on Capitol Hill. But I fell out of love with the political side of things. When I found public administration, I realized this is something I can do where I still work in government, make an impact, make a change. App State is really big on local government. And there are a lot of App State alums who work for the City of Gastonia and across North Carolina.
When you’re young, you want to change the world. You don’t want to just change Gastonia or you don’t want to just change Charlotte. You want to change the world. But now I understand that changing a city can be just as important. Changing the lives of people that you’re impacting day to day can be just as important as changing the entire country.
Have you thought about running for elective office?
Zeigler: In undergrad I thought about it. But that went away when I fell out of love with politics. I helped one of my brother’s friends run for city council in Charlotte one summer. I went door to door, and after that I was like, “I don’t know if this is for me.”
Young: I definitely thought about it, but it’s not for me. I can’t do the politics of it. Saying things I don’t believe to cater to a particular audience or watering down something I believe in, I just can’t do that.
What have you done in your internships with the City of Gastonia?
Young: We’ve spent time with each department. What we’ve done has been dependent on the department head and the type of experience they want to give us. Each one has been different. Some have been full immersion, going to meetings, very interactive and seeing everything that they do. We went out on runs with different employees. Solid Waste showed us a couple of their routes.
Zeigler: Realizing how the City runs has been a big thing for me. Coming out of my master’s program I had the book information, but I didn’t get the practical experience. Putting that book knowledge to work has been very important for me. Just seeing how the City works.
What surprised you?
Young: When I initially thought of local government, I thought of town hall meetings where there was a lot of discussion but no action. I thought all of the action was state and federal. I didn’t realize that local government is the main contributor to what goes on in people’s day-to-day lives. We’re who people call when they have questions or concerns. Local government is the one who solves those issues, mainly. That was surprising.
And when we were with Finance, Crystal (Certain, Finance director) said the budget has to be balanced on the penny. $300 million has to be balanced to the penny! For her to pull out that binder and be like, “This is what a budget looks like” – it’s as big as two of my textbooks. It’s intimidating! And the City has to make sure that it’s balanced by a certain date.
Zeigler: I was surprised by Public Works and Utilities. I never knew how that worked. I knew that I turned the faucet and water came on. I knew that when I cut the lights on, the electricity came on. But I hadn’t spent time thinking about wastewater or stormwater. Little things from Public Works and Utilities were the most surprising to me and great to learn.
I also had wondered why local governments don’t do more to keep rising property values from pricing people out of their homes. Working with Kristy (Crisp, Economic Development director) and Jason (Thompson, Planning director), I now realize gentrification is more complex. It’s not necessarily an answer that local governments can give. Government doesn’t control privately owned property. Often times, property values go up and lower-income residents or renters get priced out. But that’s all in the private sector. If someone can’t afford their property tax after the value goes up, there’s not much local government can do on its own to fix that. There’s no cut-and-dried answer for complex issues like affordable housing, and that’s probably the biggest assumption that changed for me.
Did anything about our Council/Manager form of government surprise you? (In Gastonia’s form of government, the city manager is like a municipal CEO, the city council has legislative authority, and the mayor is an important public figure but has no formal authority outside of the city council.)
Zeigler: It did open my eyes. You look at New York City where the mayor has a lot more power. But in most of North Carolina, the city manager has more power to deal with day-to-day issues, unless it’s an issue that needs approval from the City Council. The city manager is the one making sure that all of the cogs are in place and running smoothly, making sure that what Council wants is getting implemented.
Joe Young at the Gastonia Municipal AirportA councilman can ask that the grass be cut at the cemeteries, but he’s not the one pushing the lawn mower. It’s Parks and Rec. Having that understanding can help any citizen. And maybe if they understand it, they’ll give more grace to both elected officials and local government employees.
Young: A lot of people don’t know what a city manager is or what he does. I kind of did, but I really know how it works now. Local government is a lot more complex than most people realize.
How might this internship affect your career path?
Zeigler: Local government is definitely something I want to do as a career. And I’ve gotten interested in the work of multiple departments while I’ve been here. It’s broadened my scope of what I would like to do in local government. I came here with one or two things that I thought I might want to do, mainly Human Resources and Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Now it’s grown to about four or five areas. I never thought I’d want to be a planner, but Jason won me over. And Vincent (Wong’s) department (Community Services), doing those kinds of things with community development interests me.
My schooling is done and I’ll be looking for full-time work after I complete the internship. I’ve already started applying for jobs, including an HR position with the City of Gastonia. Hopefully I’ll end up working here!
Young: I want to work in local government. I really enjoyed being with Cherie (Jzar, DEI coordinator). I see her as an older version of myself. She still has that passion. She is a leader and that’s really inspiring. I also enjoyed Community Services and Economic Development – and how they make the city better for the people.
Another thing that opened my eyes is how important retirement is. Once you get your “big girl job,” you have to start thinking about retirement. Some people have been here for like 25 years and are proud to work here. I feel more knowledgeable. I’ve really enjoyed this internship and I’m very thankful for this opportunity.
Both Young and Zeigler brought up the subject of stereotypes that have hurt Gastonia’s reputation in the past.
Young: When we were with Kristy, we had a very meaningful conversation about the self-worth of Gastonia. People outside of Gastonia actually see us in a better light than residents of Gastonia see themselves. I think it’s important that we have local government officials who think highly of the people that they are serving. Gastonia has been the underdog, and everybody roots for the underdog. I’m rooting for us! And I know the people who are working here are rooting for us.
Zeigler: Being from Charlotte, it was just implied that people don’t go to Gastonia. But I’ve gotten a different perspective of how the City of Gastonia is now and what it’s becoming, and that has really impressed me.
What are your biggest takeaways as a result of your internship?
Zeigler: I’m going to take a lot from this internship, for sure. I’ve loved the City of Gastonia! It’s a great city to intern with right now. It’s shown me what growth can look like. For a city that started as a rural mill town, it’s starting to diversify and grow and all of this economic development is coming this way. It’s cool interning with a City where you can see the growth happening before your eyes. I love to see it! It’s like an emerging city. It’s been a great opportunity.
Young: I’m impressed with the City of Gastonia. I feel like in 10-years’ time, maybe even sooner than that, Gastonia is going to be booming. Quality of life is a priority here, and City government is a very citizen-centered group of people. I’m definitely impressed and hope I can be part of the team one day!
Footnote: The City began a formal, paid internship program in FY18 as a way to give qualified college students real-world experience in a government environment. Interns get a broad picture by spending at least one day with each City department, seeing what its employees do and how services are provided. Interns also attend a variety of meetings and work on projects to prepare them for municipal government work. 
Joe Young and Malik Zeigler (second and third from left) with DEI Change Team.